CCChefPwd:  Get your 99 yearbook handy for reference tonight in the cake decorating chat
CCChefDol:  got mine right here - this time

DOLORES' PART
When we are asked, we usually charge $1.50 per serving for the cake in the 99Wilton Yearbook. And we restrict what we will do for that price. Many have toys on them. We charge whatever the price is in the Yearbook for toys or plastics. Most of the cakes in this year's Yearbook aren't as difficult as they seem at first glance. Many use rolled fondant. We keep it on hand at all times. So we don't worry about needing it. We use Regalice©. I keep it tightly covered in a Tupperware bowl once I open it. I keep all scraps of colored fondant. I may use it. If I keep it too long...a month or more, I store it in the fridge. But I let it return to room temp before I use it.

CCChefDol:  I have no qualms about using plastics on the cakes. Kids love them!
CCChefPwd:  Plus it saves us time and we won't get sued for using that character
JWGPKG:  And if you make them, you know they're really worth more than $1.30
each.  They don't appreciate that, though.
CCChefDol:  If they don't appreciate it they don't get one from us LOL...not
twice anyhow!
CCChefPwd:  You mean your customers don't get something for nothing????

For cakes like the one on the front of the 99Yearbook, I would try to estimate a good price individually (per serving), for the flowers, then add up the total for all...adding on extra for plastics or fondant items. I do this a lot. Then you don't cheat yourself or your customer. Its a good way to arrive at a fair price.

(IF) I did my doll cake I have on my web site at http://w3.one.net/~proicer/cakepict/goodies.htm - I would charge at least $25.00. It is only one cake mix but it is a lot of work.

For the cake on page 15, I would charge for the items individually then total it up. That one is tricky.
I would use royal icing for the backdrop and not set it on the cake. It could be laid out in a box and the customer would set it into place. I think that would fall over if it was moved. That cake could easily end up costing $40.00 or more. It would be fun to do.

If I have to make small items such as on page 31 (gumpaste roses) I would charge for those individually.
I think that size costs about $1.30 each on my web site. I can show people the roses in my store and the prices are on them.

On page 37, the flower lollipops should be charged for AFTER the price of the muffin cups.

I have always added the cost of 'toys' on to the base price. I'd never 'give' them to the customer. I have had several people who ask the price of the cake, then try to pick out more items for it free. That doesn't work here! Sometimes they even get mad when I start adding it on.

The fishing cake on page 23 is really cute for a man. But if you look closely, it is very easy. I would start out charging $18.00 then add the cost of the figure onto that. I don't charge extra for candy rocks (looks like they made theirs, but I'd use our candy ones since they are prettier and more realistic. Wilton features their drop flowers but you could make your own with royal icing for a fraction of the cost.

For the CROSS cake on page 66, I would charge about $1.00 each for the morning glories. The rest is easy.
CCChefPwd:  Very neatly done
CCChefDol:  I think they re-did the yrbk. My NEWER one at work it IS on another page

When I do gumpaste bouquets like the one on page 79, I charge similar to what I think the florist would charge, but a little bit more. If you find out what real flowers do cost, it may be easier to price your icing ones.

For the small wedding cake on page 82, I DID do it. I charged $2.00 per serving. The girl wanted lilies that she saw in my shop so I couldn't make them myself. I <barely> came out money wise! It took 3-4 boxes of flowers. I got a surprise there.

CCChefPwd:  Is that with the orchid and the small flowers and leaves
CCChefDol:  right Pwd
CCChefDol:  ...easy way to cover that petal shaped cake - fondant!
CCChefPwd:  Do you remember how many lilies it took to do that cake.
CCChefDol:  I THINK it took me 3 boxes of medium ones but I did it 3 tiers
CCChefPwd:  The book says to make 250 bluebells -  I didn't think those were bluebells
CCChefDol:  looks like lilies to me...the writer and the publisher crashed

Its a great idea to go through the Yearbook if you are going to show it for cake orders. Look at the cakes very closely, jot down some prices and have a general idea of costs. Otherwise, I would not commit to a price until I'd had time to think about it. It would be better to lose the order than to cheat yourself or the customer.

EARLENE'S PART  Another Yearbook pricing discussion

You asked us to do another pricing discussion using the Wilton yearbooks as a reference point. I picked up the 99 yearbook and there are so many really clever and pleasing designs in this years book.   So if you don’t have your yearbook  handy - pop up out of your chair and quick run get it and join us in the discussion on pricing.

Page 2 top left hand corner is a really clever design for someone who wants to try the rolled fondant and yet not get to fancy.  Really a cute cake idea that could incorporate almost any plastic figure or candle figure available at this time.  My base price for fondant is $3.00 per serving for the wedding cakes.  I gather this is a one layer 3" high 9" round cake.  So the servings should be about  20 to 25.  This is such a simple cake I don’t think I could charge $60 for this little birthday cake.  There is no piping and no borders - only writing a message.  You could probably charge $40 for this cake if you have a good clientele.

The train at the base, Barney on the top of page 3, both the cakes on page 6, and page 11 are all one cake mix cakes done with very nicely done star fill in’s.  These cakes do take time because of all the stars. Time consuming but not difficult techniques.  Serving approximately 20 to 25 servings and being mostly buttercream.  You should be able to charge at least $25 and if you do the candy figures (6) such as in the train on page 2 charge extra for those.  Probably at least $1. Each figure.  Add the cost of the candle 79¢ and your total price could be   about $32.00 at least.

When they want more cake such as the Pooh on page 7 bottom.  You might have 45 to 50 servings in the 12" round and the Pooh cake.  At the very least you should be able to charge $1.00 per serving and Pooh should be higher.  $4.00 for the candles at Wilton’s retail.  This cake should retail for between $45 to $75 easily.   The problem with telling your customers that type of price is that they see the prices on the low end bakeries such as in your local grocery stores or wal-mart or k-mart.  But have you really looked at those cakes.  They are fast production cakes with no detail.  Certainly not the time that would be required of you to make most of the cakes in this yearbook.

If your customers want that type of pricing then I would suggest that they go to those stores to buy their cakes.  It would not be worth my time to bake, make icing and decorate a birthday cake for $15.00.  Half a day of my time and they want to pay me $15.00 - I don’t think so.  Your time is valuable - you should be compensated at a reasonable price.

The Minnie Mouse on page 14 bottom is just darling. A few buttercream roses and a 127 ruffle skirt really set this one off.  Again at least $25 and more if you can ask that of your customers.
Playing dress-up on page 15 is really cute.  But be prepared to spend a little time making the three window pieces from royal icing or gum paste, the floor of this little scene is a fondant covered plate.  Really a cute idea for a special little girl.  I would charge at least $60 for this cake.
Pages 18 through 25 are men’s and boys cakes.   I love the fisherman cake using the horseshoe pan on page 23.  Simple and yet very masculine.  The trees for this cake are made on upside down ice cream cones and leaves piped with royal icing.  The taller trees are balanced on dowel rods that are covered with brown buttercream icing.  At least $25 for this cake.  And those fish in the water are candles.

Then on the top of page 31 is a beautiful birthday cake for any special woman in your life.  Very elegant.  This cake does require some basic gumpaste flowers but you could substitute some buttercream roses and leaves easily on this cake.  I was disappointed that they didn’t do the butterfly out of royal icing.  But again that would add cost for the time it would take to make that butterfly.  If the roses were gumpaste at least $60 for this cake.  $30 if the roses are buttercream.

Page 33 has a really nicely executed chocolate cake.  Neat trim borders make this cake outstanding.  At least $20 to 25 for this cake.   This cake can be done very quickly once the pattern is mastered.

The only wedding cake that I see in here that makes me want to duplicate it is the cake on page 89.  Really a nice texture contrast.  Aren’t the drapes well done.  Really a nice cake.  I would charge probably about $4 per serving for this cake.  There is about 225 servings here so that would make this cake $900 plus the cake top.

CCChefPwd:  I have some people who don't want me to use the Kahlua in the Kahlua Fudge Cake. I have to explain that the alcohol bakes out
CCChefDol:  pwd, we have Kahlua flavoring by Lorann
CCChefMeg:  BUT WE ARE EPISCOPLAINS, SO.....
CCChefPwd:  Because if they were raised like I was.  Alcohol in any form was off limits.  And we didn't know that when you cooked with it  - it all vanished except the flavor
CCChefDol:  If all people used alcohol like we do it would never become a problem

Themecakes:  I'd like to try the 'bubble' cake next week (pg. 80) - anyone else try it yet?
Lolitabunn:  what is bubble cake???
CCChefDol:  reminds me of the bathtub cake so many yrs ago...looks like fun
CCChefDol:  the bubble cake could be good for dif. occasions
Themecakes:  I'm making it for a close friend's engagement get together....
OnlineHost:  Cookingout has left the room.
CCChefDol:  Pwd...would you charge $3.00 per serving for the cake on pg 2?
CCChefDol:  that cake would take about 30 min. at most
CCChefPwd:  For people who are accustomed to K-Mart prices you would be lucky to get $20 for it.
CCChefDol:  My students do one a lot more detailed in 1 hour
CCChefPwd:  Now Dee you have to remember baking, mixing the colors and doing the cake
CCChefDol:  I think I'd be happy to do that one for $20.00...for the fun of it...once LOL
CCChefDol:  oh yes, so right!
CCChefDol:  I would have to charge $25.00 for shaped cakes for an incentive to do a good job
Lolitabunn:  my daughter does the character cakes and we charge $25
CCChefPwd:  And all those little stars are a pain in the hand
CCChefDol:  Yes..looks better with tip 16 too
Themecakes:  I charge 25.00 too - unless extremely colorful & detailed - then at least 30.00
L2jlu2:  $25 is what i charge for character cakes, 2layers $35
CCChefPwd:  That is a good starting price.
CCChefDol:  I would charge more according to added detail and colors
Themecakes:  I've never done it, but I'd charge at least 30 for Godzilla on pg. 19....
CCChefDol:  it takes awhile. They don't like to pay it but they will when they find out it is good cake
CCChefDol:  bakeries can't do copyrighted ones anyway
JWGPKG:  Actually, no one should do copyrighted cakes.
Themecakes:  Let's not go there....LOL

CCChefDol:  we must work hard to build a clientele THEN raise prices. I would make it a habit to raise prices once a yr at least....not a big jump all at once
ShariH1071:  grocery stores put figurines on sheet cakes
CCChefPwd:  Right - we can't do them legally either except for my grandchildren’s cakes
CCChefPwd:  They eat up the evidence    LOL
CCChefDol:  the computer is helping to educate us on the copyright laws. Pretty soon they won't have ...anyone to arrest anymore

L2jlu2:  what would you charge for pg14 the jewelry box??
CCChefDol:  Jewel box: I would make a basic price then add on all the candies
JWGPKG:  The pull-out drawers and lid, etc., made of gumpaste; takes time.
CCChefDol:  I'd use candy rocks on that cake]
CCChefPwd:  I was wondering why you would put rocks in the Jewel box.  LOL
CCChefDol:  maybe for jewels

CCChefPwd:  Did you notice that this yearbook seems to be pushing the 3" pans
CCChefDol:  right Pwd. I don't know if they sell well...
Lolitabunn:  I have 3" pans and my cakes burn, I'm not please with them!  Too much batter, takes to  long to bake
CCChefPwd:  I don't like the way they bake
CCChefDol:  do you set them on a cookie sheet? Might help too

JWGPKG:  I like the blissful babe on page 74.
CCChefDol:  I saw a bassinette in an old yr bk today...done in the stand-up lamb pan
CCChefPwd:  You could lift that baby off and not cut it up.
TP4JB:  How long would the baby last?
JWGPKG:  Since it is mostly fondant w/gumpaste flowers, what would you charge?
CCChefDol:  That is so right Pwd...I have a problem with eating the baby too
Themecakes:  I wanted to try the one on pg. 73 - thought it looked too difficult....
CCChefPwd:  We did a life size sleeping baby sculptured cake a couple of times years ago and people came back and said they couldn't cut it.
CCChefPwd:  So then when someone else wanted it we told them what the other customer had said. Didn't sell any more of those
CCChefDol:  JW...I'd do that pne for $25-30.00

CCChefPwd:  The one on pge 73 ....  Nearly everything that is decoration could be made ahead of time. So when it got time for the cake it would be just putting it together
CCChefPwd:  The daisy cake on 75 is very nice.  I wish they had used more realistic colors for the centers of the flowers.  I know it was for a boy but they could have used blue ribbons etc.

Rangodam:  I'm a newbie and pricing is one area I can't seem to figure out. Any advice?
CCChefDol:  Rang - I'd say start out slightly higher than the area bakeries. Do your best and keep raising your prices a quarter at a time...maybe 1-2 times a yr

JWGPKG:  For color flow, do you just "water" down your royal, or do you prefer Wilton's Colorflow?
TP4JB:  Colorflow seems to take forever to dry.  Is there a secret?
CCChefDol:  JW...color flow OR other icing made with egg white - is stronger for delicate pieces
CCChefPwd:  I use the fresh egg whites, lemon juice and pwd sugar. Lemon juice to thin
CCChefDol:  BUT - egg white is not safe...which brings us back to color flow
JWGPKG:  Is using egg white powder any safer than using real egg whites?
Swtelegnt:  I ad extra meringue powder to my royal icing and use that for
floodwork. Also, I prefer to make most of my pieces in white, then paint them later with color and  80
Swtelegnt:  proof alcohol (ie vodka)
Themecakes:  thinned buttercream??

WAFER PAPER:
Themecakes:  What's the best way to 'draw' on wafer paper.  I have a very detailed piece - can I 'paint'
CCChefDol:  wafer paper...draw either a non toxic Bic pen...colors won't smear
TP4JB:  Can someone tell me exactly what wafer paper is?
CCChefDol:  Pwd makes wonderful butterflies with wafer paper
Themecakes:  Can you eat it if you use a pen??
CCChefPwd:  Or gumpaste
CCChefDol:  it is made of rice I think...or potato flour? Pwd
CCChefDol:  Yes if the pen is non toxic
CCChefPwd:  Rice paper
Swtelegnt:  Wafer paper is also known as rice paper
Themecakes:  TP - made with same stuff that's used to make hosts for a Catholic mass....
TP4JB:  Completely edible?
CCChefPwd:  Not tasty but edible
CCChefDol:  wafer paper is sort of like cotton candy...disintegrates when wet (on both sides)
JWGPKG:  Made mostly for design, not taste.
CCChefDol:  completely edible but tasteless
TP4JB:  Is it purchased in sheets?
CCChefPwd:  Like bland rice krispies
CCChefDol:  sheets oblong or round
CCChefDol:  wafer paper doesn't taste
Themecakes:  about 25 cents per...
TP4JB:  Do you cut then with scissors
Swtelegnt:  I use wafer paper and then stamp designs (food color) for decorations
CCChefDol:  wafer paper is on my Baking Equip page but no pict. I don't think
CCChefPwd:  an exacto knife works pretty good for detailed designs
CCChefPwd:  It breaks easily so handle it with care
CarolA5238:  Carolyn had a class and we made butterflies they look so real. We used wafer paper
TP4JB:  Will the paper kind of melt into the icing if you lay it on top?
CCChefDol:  I still have the butterfly I made long ago when I took a class from Pwd
CCChefPwd:  That is an ancient butterfly Dee..... LOL
CCChefPwd:  Those wings will fly off of a cake if you get then out in the west Texas wind
CCChefDol:  TP...no, it stays tough to cut through
TP4JB:  Do you take it off when you cut?
CCChefDol:  You can NOW buy edible paper. It DOES melt...much more expensive...dollar or more per sheet
CCChefDol:  wafer paper is light weight
Swtelegnt:  there are some wonderful books on how to use wafer paper (rice paper) great ideas!
CCChefDol:  Donna Horn does fantastic things with it
CCChefPwd:  Real fantastic 3D figures.
Themecakes:  What about colored pencils to color wafer paper - or is the paper too delicate?
CCChefDol:  Donna has a good book. She made a stand up clown - 3D too
CCChefDol:  Theme...okay if they won't smear
CCChefPwd:  You have to have a light touch
CCChefPwd:  Not a sharp pencil
CCChefDol:  TP...just try to cut through it...can't remove it
TP4JB:  Is the wafer paper expensive?
CCChefDol:  very cheap
CCChefDol:  10 cents a sheet maybe
CarolA5238:  I did a black silhouette of the square dance couple on an ann. cake and it
Swtelegnt:  I like the pencils that you can wet lightly to look like watercolors.
CCChefPwd:  Inexpensive - the time to color the butterflies is where the expense for the butterflies comes in.
Themecakes:  hey - i just paid 25 cents tonight....
CarolA5238:  came out great.
CCChefDol:  Theme...I am not at all sure of the price LOL
CCChefDol:  check my online catalog...prices are there
Themecakes:  Is that edible Swt?
CCChefDol:  Carol...wafer paper? 3D?
Swtelegnt:  They are non-toxic
CCChefDol:  If they are non-toxic the pkg will state it
TP4JB:  Do you specially promote that these cakes are completely edible?
CCChefPwd:  Non-toxic pastel chalks can be used for soft color effects on the wafer paper
CCChefDol:  TP...it is safe and it has VERY small amount of anything not edible
CarolA5238:  No I used the transfer method. and starred in the whole thing.
CCChefDol:  Pwd...do you ever use the lustre dust on wafer paper?
CCChefPwd:  I haven't - It might not stick well to the rice paper. Just have to try that.
CCChefDol:  theme...k\just have a sharp knife to cut it
Swtelegnt:  usualy 8 1/2" x 11" , are the size I find
CCChefDol:  we carry the 6 inch too - round

Rangodam:  anyone ever done a cake for a square dance?
JWGPKG:  A square dance...lots of ideas for that.
JWGPKG:  Hay bales, rope trim, etc.

TP4JB:  Bought a Winbeckler book yesterday.  Any recommendations for flowers.  Just can't seem to perfect them.
CCChefDol:  TP...buttercream?
CCChefPwd:  Did you get his flowers book?
TP4JB:  Yes, but being a lefty, things don't transfer as well. It was a buttercream and arrangement book.
CCChefDol:  my daughter who does our cakes is  a lefty...you'll do ok
CCChefPwd:  Got you.   That just means it may take you a little more practice time. Practice, patience and then more practice
TP4JB:  The only nice thing is, when my left gets tired, can switch to the right.
CCChefDol:  I feel lucky she IS left handed...helps me to teach my students better
CarolA5238:  I'm a lefty too and I have a lot of fun .
CCChefPwd:  Lucky you.  I have a friend who cracked her Left wrist.  She is a lefty and is totally frustrated because she can't do anything.
Swtelegnt:  Tp contact him He is wonderful about giving you tips, (winbeckler)
CCChefPwd:  Did I miss something?  Light weight icing for what
CCChefDol:  I can teach lefthanded. The students dont even notice when I am dec. left handed
CCChefDol:  Winbecklers - flowers that stand high
CCChefPwd:  Oh got you.  He uses a high shortning ratio icing
CCChefDol:  McNamara used a boiled icing so I thought maybe Roland did too
CCChefDol:  Pwd's site: http://members.aol.com/pwdsugar/index.html
Swtelegnt:  no Roland uses a standard buttercream made with shorting

TP4JB:  I took the Lambeth Class.  Couldn't move my fingers at the end of the day.
CCChefDol:  Nicholas Lodge is going to be teaching at Wilton about 1 Sept
CCChefPwd:  Got you.....   Lambeth is intensive work
TP4JB:  I know that now.
Swtelegnt:  Yes, I wuold love to take nicks class when I get the chance
CCChefDol:  TP...now I would like that...taught myself Lambeth
CCChefDol:  taking his class in March!!!
CCChefPwd:  I still have a couple of opening in Nicholas's class in March

TP4JB:  My specialty is Gingerbread Houses.  About 300 in December.
CCChefDol:  300! wow!
TP4JB:  Paid for my computer!!!!!!
CCChefPwd:  Now that is a lot of gingerbread.   WOW
CCChefDol:  Someone in Hamilton does a lot like that. They buy 60 cake boards at a time...they take orders
TP4JB:  I do a craft show that has a 3 year wait.  It's my best. Love to do Bunny Huts.  They're so cute.
CCChefPwd:  Now you are enjoying all that gingerbread money
CCChefDol:  The bunny hut very is cute
TP4JB:  I think Basket is one of the easiest to learn. It's all about patience.
TP4JB:  I've set aside 2 hours a week to work on basic skills.

Themecakes:  Quick question for you experts - is the cake on pg. 78 (basket) too hard for a newbie??
CCChefPwd:  OH Dee you think they made that cake out of Styrofoam?
CCChefDol:  they certainly DID LOL
Themecakes:  I'd like to make it for a VERY special friends wedding shower - should I try it or go for something more simple??
CCChefDol:  use a 6" styrofoam ball cut in half
TP4JB:  I've used a round for a cake that shape.
CCChefPwd:  That is really pretty simple.
TP4JB:  Never had any problems.
CCChefDol:  it doesn't look hard...the basket on top is a bit worrisome
TP4JB:  As long as it's same or next day.
CCChefPwd:  Good idea TP4B.  Just pipe it on the ball and make your flowers on toothpicks and stick them into the ball
CarolA5238:  It looks easy to me .
CCChefDol:  you could even hold the ball in your hands to basketweave it...I've done such as this

ICES:
CCChefDol:  TP...are you in ICES?
TP4JB:  No, been out of this for a while. Should find out more info.
CCChefDol:  really...I don't think it sounds like you are out of it
CCChefDol:  we're having a regional ICES m,eeting this time on May 1-2
TP4JB:  My favorite is to hand draw picture people bring to me.  I've gotten very good at that.
TP4JB:  Where;s the meeting at?
CCChefDol:  thats Ohio for the big ICES thing...will be 200 people I bet - in Columbus
CCChefPwd:  Carol have you guys in San Antonio gotten your registration in yet?
TP4JB:  Don't have a calendar.  Is it a weekend?
CCChefPwd:  Saturday and Sunday
CarolA5238:  for the meeting ? We have a cake show that week-end.
TP4JB:  Great.  Where can I get more info?
CarolA5238:  I paid for the March 7, dos amd just waiting to find out how we're all going.

CCChefDol:  TP...we have a printerr that prints with edible ink on edible paper now
CCChefPwd:  Carol for the March 7th DOS
TP4JB:  What's the basic cost of that printer?
CCChefDol:  TP...your next round of GB houses LOL
CCChefDol:  500.00
TP4JB:  Can't use it for anything else, right?  Because of the inf=k.
CCChefDol:  it pays for itself
CCChefDol:  we charge $6.50 per print and $8.50 to enlarge then print
TP4JB:  Does the printer enlarge them?
CCChefDol:  the software enlarges
TP4JB:  What;s the largest paper you can use?
CCChefDol:  I have the small one so its 8x1, but there is a bigger printer too
TP4JB:  That;s still pretty good size.
CCChefDol:  You can see it on my web site at: http://www.sugarcraft.com go to AIRBRUSHING and you'll see Kopy Jet there
TP4JB:  Can you do logos for companies?
CCChefDol:  TP...not copyrighted anything. The 'checkers' have even hit me already! A checker tried to get us to do an illegal one to arrest us already. They got the cops called on them and escorted out. Was VERY interesting...he came in 3 times and refused to take NO for an answer. He wanted us to do Star Wars. Sue asked him 'what part of NO didn't he understand' LOL
CCChefPwd:  Persistently trying to get you in trouble
CCChefDol:  He probably read about it on my web site...brought the pict. on a disk
CCChefDol:  he sure was...couldn't believe he couldn't make any money off of me. I told him it is immoral to infringe

Dzigncakes:  hey can anybody tell me what’s cold-porcelain and does anybody have the recipe 4 it and how it different from gumpaste
From Dolores: This question didn’t get answered, sorry. But soon we can tell you all about this subject. Pwd & I are about to take a class on this very thing. --- But, you use a pre-made dough usually, not a recipe from scratch.